Bozz50
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Thanks Phil . . . nice & clear.
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Thanks for the reply Andy . . . working off a Graham Lee Nieuport Builders Spreadsheet I worked out that it's going to cost about $1300.00 for the 12mm tubing in the aircraft at around $3.50 per foot, then freight on top of that. Having built most of the aircaft before selling it, do you think it really needs 6061-T6 for wing ribs? I would have thought because of the number of ribs & the simple function they perform, a lower grade could be used. I can get 6060-T6 locally in Brissie at less than $10.00 per 5.5 metre length. It's about 70% the strength of 6061-T6. I noticed Graham suggests using 3/8" 6061-T6 on the rudder & rear fuselage cross bracing instead of 1/2" for the ultralight category. What are your thoughts???
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Just came across this subject. There is a little red rocket out there in Aus somewhere ( single seater, low wing) called a Starlite. Its wings were constructed using a single wooden spar which used 1" extruded polystyrene ribs (blue foam) and a 1/16" or 1/32" skin of ply over the entire wing. The fuselage was made from Pre-Preg fibreglass sandwiched foam which was vacuum bagged and baked in an oven. Very light & very strong. Same fuselage construction as the Lanceair. I believe it was even produced by the same people in The States. It was based in Caloundra near Brissie about 15 years ago. I remember Rowan, the owner, had problems with people squeezing the leading edge of the wing to see what it was made of. Several people cracked the thin plywood skin by doing this. The wings (main spars overlapped from each wing) slotted into the fuselage and had two 1/2" pins which locked them in place like some gliders. One wing was the thickness of the spar, more forward than the other. I have video & plans of it if anyone needs more info. It runs a Rotax 447 and does 100 mph on 2 gallons/hr. Link with pics: http://www.homebuiltairplanes.com/forums/sale-wanted/5580-starlite-aircraft-sale.html So yes . . . extruded polystyrene foam is a valid & proven wing rib building material.
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Sorry Peter . . . brain fart . . . I just realised you previous post stated "280kg all up with pilot." Thanks . . .
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Thanks for the info on the weight Peter . . . I seem to recall from long ago that the AUF, at that time, added 70kg (average pilot weight) into the total weight of the aircraft. That is the aircraft had to weigh 230kg on its own max. I could be wrong & certainly hope I am, as I too would prefer to build under 95.10. I just looked up some regs regarding categories & the way I read it, it talks about a total take off weight of 300kg . . . question is, does this include the pilot?? Can an aircraft take off without a pilot?? . . . definitely, but very badly if not trimmed right . . . maybe??? Can anyone here clarify these points, as CASA's regs are pretty confusing. First hand experience information would be great on both 95.10 and 101.28 categories, regarding pre-covering inspections, LAME inspection approvals . etc.,
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With a VW or Rotax in the nose Peter?
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Phil, what are the rules for 95.55 in so far as progress inspections on the build go. Can you just build it, fill out the paperwork (weights etc.,) & register it as you would 95.10, or does a LAME have to inspect it during the build and, or, before covering the framework with fabric??
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Peter, is your Nieuport going to get into the 95.10 category with the VW. . . ie under 300kg? I saw the one that sold recently was registered as 95.10 according to the rego number, but it used a 503 Rotax. I know the Dawn Patrol had trouble getting into their ultralight category, but I think their weight limit is a fair bit less than ours. Do you have a rough idea as to what empty weight you are expecting it to be in the end? Sure would make it simple if it slotted into the 95.10 category . . .
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Thanks for the info Peter . . . I've sent Andy a message, hopefully he'll respond soon. Love your build, it looks real good. Drifter experience is the way to go, to transition to the Nieuport. I got my licence on Drifters back when Kooralbyn's Skyflite aviation was in full swing. If you only need a bit of 6061-T6 you will be able to get it from Airport Metals Australia in Melbourne . . . here's a link to their website, which will show you what size 6061-T6 tubing they have in stock. http://www.airportmetals.com/products.htm Cheers. . . Gene
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Hi Andy . . . I live in Brisbane. I was just messaging Peter, who bought your Nieuport, as to the source of tubing that was used. I too began building a Graham Lee nieuport aboout 15 years ago and was using 6106-T83 tubing which Graham Lee approved. Did you buy the aircraft as a kit or construct it from local materials? 6061-T6 is so hard to get & so expensive in Aus. I'm about to continue the build but am surprised that 6061-T6 is still pretty scarce. if you purchased the materials locally could you let me know from whom?? Thanks . . . Gene.
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Peter . . I'm in Brisbane & began building the Graham Lee Nieuport II about 15 years ago. I've got the 2 fuse sides & tail feathers built using 6016-T83 that Graham approved, as 6061-T6 was near impossible or too expensive to buy here. I've got a mate who wants to build one too now but the place I was buying the tubing from, has changed hands now & they no longer carry the stuff. Question is did you buy a complete kit or source the materials locally? if locally where from & what grade of alloy. It amazes me that 6061-T6 is so common & cheap in most of the world . . . just not Aus. I can get it from Melbourne but at $5.50 fer foot for 3/4" tube it's going to cost a bomb. I'm sure 6061-T6 is not required everywhere on the Nieuport . . . for instance, I wouldn't imagine the wing ribs or cross struts in the fuselage rear require 6061-T6 as the ribs carry very little load & the fuse cross struts are in compression. In this compression configuration I'm sure the 6061-T6 logerons would crush, before the cross braces bent. I can get 6106-T6 locally which is about 2/3rds the strength of 6061-T6 at $8.00 fo a 6 meter length. Cheers . . . Gene
