bexrbetter

Welcome Tim, hope you show us your build occasionally.

Great write up Peter, thank you.

But you're meant to have days off, that's when the headaches come.

Yes that's interesting. While the 1000 orders isn't, Velocity have taken 30 years to sell 500 similar craft for example, that plenty of people are supporting the project concept is of interest and shouldn't be denied, apparently this aircraft type appeals to many.

I can verify my support for people and their projects - until the day they ask for money, then I balance the risks to those people or others.

No one is questioning his integrity or purpose, but that has nothing to do with facts. The crux of it IMO. They stated that an aerodynamicist said the model would not fly well, and it would do X and Y, they flew the model, it flew badly and did X and Y as predicted. They guessed some fixes and went straight to building the actual craft implementing the guessed fixes. Now if that was me I would build the simplest, fastest, cheapest option to get the thing flying to investigate what's going to need fixing. I would do the molds, build one from fiberglass, not carbon, as weight for the mule isn't an issue and the fiberglass is easier to modify later, throw a used Lycoming on and go sort out the plane through a test regime (got a plane for display purposes later as well). I would also offer a base model, eg; non-pressurised, no thrills Lycoming/Conti adaptable, which would be first out of the blocks. But no, rather than follow what is logical methods giving yourself room to go back a step or 2, they are going to build the entire plane as presented to a client first up with all the trimmings, pressurised ability, air conditioning, sunvisors, fox tail on the ariel, and chromed grease nipples. Making such peripheral items as sunvisors at this stage of development, just one of many examples, is not only a costly and useless waste of time, but goes towards the incredibly naive thought process that this plane will fly and perform perfectly straight out of the blocks. Add to that, they are going to install an unknown, not to mention already highly modified by their own hands, automotive conversion. A 220(?)hp diesel with massive TV's running through a belt drive, good luck with that as a stand alone issue from the whole package. This. He is presenting a craft that likely will not fly in it's offered configuration, and whatever form, not for a very long time yet. My issue is simply that in the meantime he is taking deposits based in faith and that is hurting manufacturers with real product on offer today. Not to mention the people who will be pee'd off when if falls through and go buy a Porsche or something leaving aircraft behind for good. That people can take there deposits back is not a valid point, if anything it increases the problem.

in Logan City we just called it a Liqueur.

Can't be too secure if you found out ...

Heretic.

There's not 1100 orders, more likely 50 tops. I would say the others are of crowdfunding mind, and don't forget they can take back $1800 any time they want through the Escrow. Do I ever wish there was that many real purchases around with the direction I'm headed in at the moment. I read one post last year, when they believed they would be producing by last year, telling a guy who would have been around ticket 500 at the time that he would be waiting 4 years. Any one here who has been involved in production can get a gist of what it would take to get production up to 2 per week AFTER they have actually finalised the actual pre-production plane first. 2019 would be there first full production year, and only if everything works out from here on IMO. These guy's targets can not be bought to reality without enormous expansion of resources, far beyond the current setup of factory and staff, and of course it's going to cost a lot of money that has to be returned. I'm going through exactly that right now, it's an area where the choice of high end composites bites you in the azz.

Well the point is I haven't, so I'm still interested.

My Wife's Mum told her to keep me interested to never let me see her completely naked. Quite the collection of night socks she has.

If you were going to introduce a new product of just about any type you could name from vehicle to furniture, there are certain well known and proven industry procedures you follow, Raptor are way off the mark. They are building the entire craft, including all of it's unknown parameters, as a complete unit and expect to roll it out the door in 2016. Wait, what ....? They built a model, an aerodynamicist told them it would have a serious issue, they flew it, the model had that exact issue, they shrugged it off and guessed a fix (a fix, not a redesign), continued with the full sized craft without testing the fix on the model. Instead of building a full sized bare bones prototype, throwing a Lycoming/Continental in it and testing, they are building the complete aircraft out of the blocks. By complete that includes a new concept Audi V6 turbo diesel, pressurised cabin, air conditioning, fully trimmed, etc etc without knowing that it's even going to fly reasonably. It's enough just to build a plane, it's another thing to introduce a new power unit concept, but trying to do it all in one hit including pressurised cabin? I don't think so. But what gets me most is the obscene amount of pedantic bespoke parts being used, rarely have I seen such stupidity for what is slated to be a production item. The project management is completely and utterly clueless in this regard, it will blow out cost and delivery time, as is already showing. That they are living in La La Land is not my business, hell good on them for having a go, I don't have issue with that, the issue is the moment they put their hands out for deposit money from prospective purchasers is the damage they are doing to aviation and to other manufacturers who have real product for sale when they clearly will not succeed with the current package offered, and certainly not within an acceptable time frame as evidenced on their to date progress.

Why did the fence "have to be there"? I have posted for a meter high fence instead with examples of other shows, as have other Members, I have started a Not-Kosh thread exploring alternatives. That's my de-fence.

Are you going to use the bathtub or a kids blowup swimming pool for this test?

Sadly not unique to RAA, many clubs and organisations take this approach now, numbers first, members second.

Investigators start with speculation combined with evidence and scenarios to get a result. I have no issue with it but would tend to avoid speculation of pilot error without facts. A plane crashes with a wing 400 meters away offers reasonable grounds for wing separation speculation. 210 Wing Lower Spar Cap Bulletin Sel-57-01 Revision 1 | Tennessee Aircraft Services, Inc.

Err, yeah, ok, I was actually agreeing with you in as much as that $30 was a non-issue and that numbers were mumbling about it, by your ears and in this thread. Took my Daughter to her favorite Jap snack bar at Carindale Shopping center last week and walked out $60 lighter for example, $40 to fill up the little rent a Getz, etc, ... makes $30 for an event look cheap.

It's certainly the closest, but problem is how the "Heck" are you going to get from there to Beenleigh? You're landing in the middle of nothing but reeds, cane and swamp for miles around.

We call them "plastic bags" here.

Nope.

I can't believe anyone complaining about the $30, someone had to pay for the airshow and special features. Mind you, it raises a question if you actually want an airshow or not, I am for not, and I just watched the best of the Russians a few weeks ago.

I did mention a 6 month spacing away from OzKosh. Easter is a good idea. Not trying to compete, there is always room for a major social event. A casual non-pressure and no expectations other than what you make of it, was the approach I used to make my previous club successful.

Harsh, but true!

Hey guys, the Wagga Wagga Boy Scouts are having a fund raising sausage sizzle at the Wagga airport this weekend, drop in and buy a sausage for a good cause. I'm not against following rules and/or working with relevant authorities, as long as they are reasonable and it's for the benefit of all. I started a sporting club from scratch and ran it as President for 7 years and had a very good working relationship with the Governing body, who were seen by others as the 'enemy'.