Bluey

I've seen at least one 582 experience a seizure on take off after 430 hrs of faultless service. There were no contributing factors that you could attribute to operator error. I'm not saying that two strokes are all going to stop, I'm saying they are more likely to than there four stroke counterpart. Anyhow reliability is just one reason to go the four stroke. What about the fuel economy? Compared to the range you get from a four stroke, it is chalk and cheese. We've got a 582xtc in the hangar and when it comes out with the four strokes it not only can't keep up it just doesn't have the legs to go to the same locations and this is flying solo. Stick a passenger on the back and 60 odd litres of fuel and two stroke oil is gone in about 3.5 hours at around an indicated speed of 50knots and about 16litres an hour. Don't get me wrong, it's a great trike but for around 40k a good well maintained four stroke with some hours on it is always going to be a better prospect in my opinion. Bluey. Bluey

The choice between buying a new 582 with a 300 hour tbo and an engine that will stop without warning is not the same as buying a 912 with 500 or 600 hours or even more that has been properly looked after with a tbo of 1500 or 2000 hrs. Especially when many documented cases exist of 912's doing more than 3000 hrs without a problem. Bluey

I'm not saying there are heaps out there for sale at the moment. What I am saying is that there are more than 1 or 2 that are selling too cheaply. I know of at least 2 sst in southern nsw with less than 300 hrs on them selling for under $44000. I know of three more trikes in NSW, SA and QL all under 400 hrs with asking prices under $35000. I've been in the triking game for a few years and I can't recall ever seeing the market so depressed. Other people I've spoken to recently who have been doing this much longer than me are saying the same things too. Bluey.

There might be a few that have been damaged but quite frankly provided they have been professionally repaired it shouldn't be an issue. The only ones I'd be concerned about are the ones that have been for a swim. From a very comprehensive look at what is being offered around at the moment, quite a few if not all second hand trikes being offered for sale at the moment are under valued. In many cases sellers seem willing to accept a 10 to 15 thousand dollar loss to move the trikes to new owners. This attitude is making it very difficult if not impossible for sellers who wish to get a fair price for their trikes. It is now the case that second hand 912's do not hold value at all well. This was not the case a few years ago and airborne agree. Bluey.

That's interesting! My information comes direct from airbornes mouth (Shane). I have seen one delivered at Ywol in the last 12 months myself. Why are they saying business is realty slow at the moment? I'm also hearing the same from a few instructors I've spoken to. This leads me to wonder why has the arse fallen out of the second hand four stroke market all of a sudden? Is it the proliferation of four strokes that is making it a buyers market or is it the global economy at the moment? Bluey.

Yes, it's definitely a buyers market. Very few 4 stroke trikes I know are selling for what they're worth at the moment. This has been going on since the gfc. Airborne for instance have only sold 4 xt912's in the past 12 months or so. They say they are selling lots of 2 strokes and single seaters. If you insist on getting a good price for your trike you are waiting a very long time. Bluey.

Going back to the incident in question, does anyone know where it occurred? Bluey.

By the way, the streak III is for sale. See the trike or classifieds section for more details if you are interested. Bluey

I fly both the SST and the Streak III and I have to say I like both. I would have to admit I probably prefer the extra stability of the SST even though it is probably a little more challenging to fly. I have number 18, an earlier iteration of the wing and so it has a slight yaw to the left on take off if you don't get it off the ground at the right speed. Overall, it is very good. I have now done nearly 100 hours in it and am comfortable with it. I'm no sure about where the link between this apparent accident and the SST wing has come about. I am simply questioning the occurence of this accident. I am lost as to who it involved as not even airborne are aware of it. At this point I suspect and hope that the details of the accident have been incorrectly reported by RAAUS. Bluey

Just opened my copy of sports pilot today and read about an incident involving an Airborne SST having a very hard landing resulting in the instructor and student on their BFR being seriously injured. Anyone know anything about this? I'm not sure how old the incident is but it is in this months issue. If anyone has any further information about this we would like to hear about it as we fear we may know the persons involved. Bluey.

price drop to $39000 ONO. Trike is still at 591hrs. Any takers? Still looking for a good home. Bluey.

That would only apply if an incident could be shown to be directly caused by a gearbox failure. Bluey.

Trike is still for sale. Asking price is $40000 with just under 595 hrs on it at the moment. Bluey.

The details of the accident sound too awful to think about right now. I agree with dieselton, you did all you could with what you had available. Even if a fire truck was available, I doubt they could have put the fire out in time to save the crew. I just hope they didn't suffer. A couple of us were flying back from the south coast and decided to go by jaspers for a touch and go. As we arrived over head we were told the airfield was closed due to an aviation incident. As we departed we could see the horrible scene below. My sincerest condolences to the families and may the victims rest the in peace. Bluey

Airborne are asking for A survey from trike owners who have ever had any problems with their exhausts. If anyone has any reliable information of exhaust cracking or breaking that they know of please post it here. Names are not required just reliable information. This is a rather important survey as the anecdotal evidence seems to suggest it occurs more than airborne are aware. They at this point in time are confident the exhaust components they are currently producing are perfectly adequate, where as I had a new question mark tube show signs of cracking again after just 6.5 hours of service. This is despite the fact I removed the springs and ensured the muffler could be slid away from the pipes with ease before i flew yesterday. After 1.3 hours of flight a crack was starting to develop in the same part I just replaced! Airborne are insisting that there must be large stresses on the exhaust somewhere. I and others who have inspected it don't see it. My question is why the same part all the time? This is now four broken new pipes, three on one trike and one on another. Any ideas? Bluey

Sorry to hear about that.

No Nev, I'm not at all saying I know more about the 912 than enyone let alone Rotax. I'm just gathering the information I need to make a proper informed decision. Bluey.

yes, I have been told that tig welding is the way to go with any welding on these exhausts. Shane at airborne has asked permission to contact any other owners that have had exhausts crack. Any chance of getting contact details for your mate so Shane can have a chat to him about it. As you can imagine it is in their best interest to find out if there is an issue that needs fixing? If you can't do it then don't lose any sleep over it. Bluey

Another point I forgot to mention is that airborne claim that they have only ever sold 7 exhaust pipes to their customers in more than 400 manufactured trikes. I believe the incidence of cracking is more wide spread than they are aware of because most people don't go to them for the repairs. Of the few incidents I know of that have occurred to other owners, the exhaust parts were repaired by reputable exhaust repairers. How well these repairs are standing up to the test of time is unknown to me at this time. Bluey.

I agree with you Alf especially in the case of the exhaust. How did your mate fix the problem? Did he by any chance replace the pipes with new ones from airborne? On a side note, how's your gearbox? Have you had it inspected (600hr inspection)? Bluey

It appears that if you leave it alone you'll get really good life out of it. However, the moment you touch it you'll be in trouble. I'm surprised the procedure for working on it hasn't been better publicised.

Some of you may have received an email recently regarding a defect notice issued by the HGFA about a possible exhaust component problem. The email described a number of incidence of the question mark shaped exhausts cracking on an XT912. I have had 5 cracked exhaust pipes including one catastrophic inflight fracture where the pipe cracked in two resulting in an emergency landing. After extensive discussions with right people at airborne, it has been discovered that the process of making changes to the exhaust needs to be clarified. Many airborne operators I have spoken to have mistakingly followed incorrect procedure for making adjustments to the exhaust. The process described involves attaching the exhaust components to the engine and attaching the springs before tightening any of the nuts that hold the exhaust components to the engine. This is an incorrect process that has resulted in 5 exhaust pipe failures on two seperate trikes in the last 12 months. Two failed exhaust compnents were virtually brand new. As a result of the failures of these new compnents I was led to believe that there might exist a quality control problem with the latest batch of manufactured parts. I have anecdotal evidence that others have experienced problems with exhaust cracking and or failure. I can list at least one individual that has had two failures. One involving cracking and one catastrophic failure resulting in an emergency landing. In all cases that I have experienced problems, they all occured after the exhaust was worked on. On one trike that was purchased recently, the previous owner was asked to repair some wear to exhaust lugs. The previous owner removed the affected exhaust components and then re-attached the exhaust using the above mentioned method. 15 hours later I had two cracked question mark pipes. My first cracked exhaust about 12 months ago occured shortly after an EGT probe was replaced where the exhaust part was removed to make the repair easier. Recent failures of new parts all occured after exhaust components were removed. It appears quite clear that any tampering with the exhaust that involves the adjustment of the nuts holding the exhaust to the engine induces stress in exhaust components. In order to ensure exhaust longevity all exhaust stress needs to be elliminated at time of installation. This kind of exhaust stress is the major cause of premature failure in the question mark pipes. The correct procedure for elliminating exhaust stress is to align the exhaust the following way whenever any exhaust parts are separated from the rest of the exhaust: 1. loosely attach the exhaust components to the engine. 2. Slowly tighten the nuts to the question mark shaped pipes constantly checking that the mufler can be easily moved with the pipes in place. The mufler should be rotated 180 degrees to ensure it is properly aligned in both directions. When the nuts are properly tightened the mufler should be able to be removed from the pipes without any stress on either of the pipes. 3. Do the same with the two horizontal pipes under the engine with the muffler in place. These pipes are not as critical as the two shorter pipes since they are longer and have a greater degree of flexibility. 4. Finally, once all the pipes are aligned and tightened in place, attach the springs. Note: Make sure you use antiseize grease on all the joints. This method needs to be followed whenever any of the nuts holding exhaust components are either loosened or tightened as their adjustment will cause stress (especially problematic for the short pipes). For instance the short pipes will move horizontally either left or right when either nut is adjusted resulting in the build up of stress on each of the short pipes. It is no surprise that many are not aware of the correct procedure for working on the exhaust as very few have ever had to touched it. If you do however, beware of the consequences of doing it the wrong way. I believe it is in Airbornes best interest to include written instructions whenever supplying new exhaust components to their customers. They are yet to do this and in my opinion should bare some of the responsibilty for any problems caused when the new parts fail prematurely. I have checked the XT912 maintainance manual and no mention of any procedure is included. It does however state that you should call them to arrange for any new exhaust parts you might need to order. Finally, it is important to realise that the process of changing exhaust springs will not require a full exhaust alignment as none of the nuts are adjusted for this process. Bluey.

Are there any trikers out there that have had the gearbox inspection done. I've spoken to a few who have basically said to leave it as it will most likely be fine well past its inspection time. Has anyone out there other than David not bothered with it? Apparently if it starts to get loose you could be in for major repairs and you may not have any symptoms until it starts rattling. By that time it could have already done major damage to the drive shaft on your engine for instance. Bluey.

Sounds like a range of experiences here. I was speaking to airborne regarding another matter and Shane bought the gearbox Inspection up. I called Bert floods up straight after and they confimed that it is a rotax recomended inspection at 600 hrs. I'm wondering if it is really necessary to carry it out as specified by the manual when it is running on premium unleaded petrol. The engine does sound very sweet at the moment. I have spoken to a range of other trike operators in and around YWOL and no one else knew anything about it. Bluey.

Has anyone done the gearbox overhaul on their rotax 912 engines? Apparantly it's due after 600 hours. I'd like to hear about anyone's experience with it. How difficult is it to remove the gearbox? As well as any other problems you might have experienced. Are there any people out there that haven't done it yet and have gone well past 600 hours? I'd like to hear about your experiences too. Bluey.