metalman

Hi all, im wondering if anyone knows Geoff Lawrence , he was an instructor back in the 90's in QLD in a skyfox , he was then ferrying caravans around but then i lost contact with him, I'd really like to track him down if anyone knows him

Sure Ian , I retail stuff aswell and if I vilified my customers publicly instead of apologising I'd expect to get some feedback , but hey it's your bat n ball

Alright ,perhaps clear prop does provide a wonderful service ,,,but here we are almost October and someone has bought and paid for something two months ago , and he's the bad guy for not being happy about it ,really,,,where is that time frame considered okay, aircraft spruce will inform you within hours if something isn't in stock and give you the option of getting the in stock items sent separatly, is there really anyone on this forum who would pay for something over the net ,then wait weeks on end with no correspondence ,and be expected to just say nothing ! I very much doubt it ,,,,,

There's a few Kitfoxs on my field, a few fold the wings every time ,I don't ,but then I have the room not to, it takes about 10-15 mins to prep them to fly . There's one of the Coldstream ones for sale in the RAA members market, they're great little aircraft .

So I'm guessing if you have a bad experience with a store you can have a whinge about ,unless the store owner does some stuff for free ,then you need to suck it up , personally I bought some charts from clear prop about 6-7 years ago ,took so long I ended up calling to see what was up , turns out they had to go to another retailer ,buy the stuff, then post it on to me,,,,,lesson for me was just go to the well known suppliers first up,,,,but hey ,if someone does enough free stuff I guess bad service doesn't matter.

We still aren't getting it, It's not about the location,,,all the fond memories of Narromine ,Holbrook and mangalore happened at a time when a Skyfox was the fastest UL out there, drifters and thrusters were the norm , RV,s thorps and the experimentals were faster ,but there was plenty of slower VH stuff,,,,,,but the flyins thrived ,,we need to understand that it's our thinking that's the problem. Our type of flying is about the journey ,not just the destination, actually when you get to the destination you talk about the journey! I spent two hours on Sunday just gone flying to a mates place for lunch then a bit of site seeing, I didn't ring him to see if we could meet half way , I just enjoyed the trip , and the lunch at the other end. If a two hour flight is the reason a FLYIN ,yes FLY in, fails then we deserve to see them go for good. For me Narromine is 5-6 hours , I don't dread it ,it's part of the weekend . I also go to flyins that are in Melbourne ,but flying in is more to do with the road traffic than adventure . I say again, these flyins succeed or fall because of one thing only ,pilots wanting to get together , everything else flows from that , I mean we FLY PLANES ,it's a FLY in,,,,if the actual flying is so onerous then maybe we need two types of flyins , lots of little ones on the coast for the consumers and one big one somewhere for the aviators! It is all up to us whether these events succeed or fail,,,,,just US ,,,,,,everything else flows from our willingness( makes it sound like hard work ) to go to these events !

Not sure about paying suppliers to come but I have heard ridiculous costs for a patch of dirt, maybe make it free to display something you'd get a better response, or give the sponsor a free spot and they give prize money,trophy for the flying competitions ,,,,there's no cost for the flyin and to suppliers get a years worth of advertising on a trophy, win win !

Now we're talking ,,,making memories :-) Barn dance BBQ ,,,,very informal ,,,cool Flying comps are great to watch, and compete in,love it! Give the aircraft sales people a slot to display their aircraft. On a three day weekend run an observation rallying one morning,,,maybe an hour nav ,see the area without needing to "arrive" Make it easy for people to give anyone who desires a quick lap Break up the airshow ,a morning session and an arvo one so peeps can scoot if needed,,,maybe some fireworks one night ( maybe expensive ,but if it grows into something big) And it really doesn't matter if it's on a public holiday,,,taking a Friday and Monday off if you've got plenty of notice and it planned forisn't huge ,Oshkosh is an ordinary week ( and it's in the middle of no where to ,relatively ) ,

Apart from the "moving" posts I still think we've got to change how we see these events , the idea that the event exists to promote or further aviation is probably a part of the problem, do we ever wonder why there's no need to promote sex, I mean there's toys shops and the like ,but you really don't have to convince people it's worth the effort. So if we use the same principle with any other past time we might find the best way to promote something is for others to see it's pretty damn fun. Oshkosh last year there's a heap of pilots who were doing free joyflights ,non stop ,for the week , and everyone who went for a lap had a big grin,,,,,sex is good ! So perhaps if ,instead of seeing the event as a big PR oppurtunity , we turn up , in our planes where possible , and have fun,, chat with mates, chat with strangers, even take them for a flight if you want , just ENJOY what is meant to be our passion ,,,,,,,,and that would do several things ,,,it would make for great experiences ,friendships and memories ,,,,,, passion is contagious ,by just being passionate we would promote our sport by simply being happy. Think about what's the best memories some of you have from the past events ( mangalore , Narromine ) was it the deep satisfaction that you'd done a bang up job promoting the sport ,,,,or was it's the flying ,the mateship, the camping ,drinks around the tents after the suns gone, the tall stories ,the plans for the future adventures,,,,,,

Th The times were in the notams, why not plan to leave early Sunday, or stop somewhere

6-700 aircraft turned up at Temora for the first Natfly I went to,,,what went wrong, was it just bad pr, sour grapes? I thought it was great, and was surprised at the event being bagged, I think that has more to do with people going . We now have a dissection of AUSFLY and I can see the same remarks , what do we want or expect, what will it take for us to support an event , or are we collectively quite happy to not bother?

I've had the conversation myself, someone say "I'm going to blah blah flyin, who's coming ?" The reply invariably " not this time ,if it's any good I'll go next year" , and suddenly the flyin is not getting the most important resource ,Pilots and aircraft. Why is Oshkosh and sun n fun world renowned ,the numbers,,,everything else flows from that, the first Natfly I went to was Temora ,6-700 aircraft I was told , heaps of displays ,heaps of food vendors ,a bit lacking in flying displays but it was the biggest flyin in the country ,,,,,,I spent the weekend catching up with mates from all over the country ,checked out the sales stuff , had a look in the museum , and got home to read how big of a failure it was,,,and it eventually was a failure , if we want great events then we have to support them , it is entirely up to us the pilots

Heres a thought, instead of dissecting the location why not look at it this way 1/ the success of a flying is determined by the number of aircraft on the ground 2/ the success of a flyin is determined by the number of pilots/attendees 3/ if the attendances are high business will deem it worth the effort to display the products 4/ if attendance is high there will be plenty of food vans How about instead of thinking how we can move the flyin to somewhere else why not take ownership of its success ! Everyone I've talked to goes to these things( myself included) to catch up with mates number one, to see some flying displays ,two ,and to have a look around at some new planes or trinkets ,,,,,but if we all think of reasons why it's not worth while then we will get ,,,,,NOTHING!

Yeh ,I've got a grand total of about 3 hours in a savannah so probably not really qualified, but,,,,the Sav gets off and on a lot shorter , but is about 20 knots off the eurofox's cruise . The Fox is a lot more manoeuvrable in flight ,which makes sense as you don't want it too unstable at really slow speeds the Sav will do. The Sav was a factory built and pretty nice finish , would I have one ,nope , but I'm partial to rag n tube taildraggers and I think the Sav is a bit crook to look at,,,just an opinion though, plenty like them and would have a lot of fun with( can't see the outside from the drivers seat :-))

The spars are fine, I've seen kitfox tests and it's incredible how much the wings will flex without breaking, but the Skyfox spars have been designed a bit differently , they don't flex anywhere near as much as the eurofox wings, not saying they're bad, just different. As for the adverse yaw try pulling on about half flap and then bank without using the rudder,,,its not a problem if you use ya feet but it's a good demonstration . Sorry if I was sounding negative , I've got about 60-70 hours in the eurofox and over 200 in a Skyfox type, and a few mates with kitfoxs ,,,believe me if I had a $100k kicking around I'd have a eurofox ,,,,,or a kitfox 7 ,,,,,or a Rans S20,,,,,, mmmm a highlander ,,,,,,so many planes so little money