Geoff13

Yep not much different to an A380 really or a Cessna for that matter.

Quality of training is a far more important consideration than distance to travel. This comment is not meant as a reflection on anyone as I do not know any of the schools or fields down that way, it is however a point that I discovered when looking for a flying school.

On the contrary what will improve by changing to a company. We should not change because the current structure is not optimal, we should only change if we can demonstrate an improvement with a new/different structure. I have seen no evidence of that. 6 months to answer an email is a result of poor Management and poor people on the board that will not change because of a change in structure.

That is how I was taught and have always understood it to be. It happens every day between Bribie and Moreton Islands. C LL is 3500'. Everyone that I know climbs to 3500' to make the crossing to have the best possible chance of gliding to safety in the case of an engine failure. In fact almost everyone I know will not cross if they cannot get the 3500'.

[quote =shags_j, post: 553233, member: 1670]UPDATE: I had a phone call from the president Michael Monk. His phone number is public and I urge ANYONE who has an issue with the drafts to contact him. I was very satisfied with the conversation and suggest that you phone. If we don't advise the board of what we want, nothing will change. I alike the fact that the board members appear to at least be watching this thread. Why rush the vote. My problem is the time frame between the final draft and the vote. Very few of us are employed full time in aviation and only get to meet and talk to people we know and trust on these issues on a casual basis. If we see the final draft and are required to vote on it without having the time to fully consider and discuss it I see that as a real problem. Rushing constitutional change can only end badly. Simply cannot agree with that. What we have has allowed me to get my certificate and go flying every week. It may not be perfect but it does work. I am not saying do not change but I am saying lets not rush change for the sake of change. I know people have spent an enormous amount of time on this, but we the members to date still have no concept off what we are being asked to vote on and won't until the final drft ids released. Time to slow down and get it right. This comment I totally disagree with. Changing to a company structure cannot be justified imho. In the 2 clubs that I have been involved with that went down this route, it was a complete failure.

Interesting??

You need to convince the RAAus membership that it is a good idea as well.

I clipped your post Yenn to leave the two areas I would like to comment on. Firstly Suicide is not one way out of an unbearable situation. It is one way to hand "your" unbearable situation over to those who love you. Secondly Suicide is suicide. There is no less impact on others depending on the method of death. Survivors do not care if you stick a pipe into the car and gas yourself, they do not care if you swallow a bullet they do not care that you stepped in front of a train. They care only that you killed yourself and they did nothing to help you or worse still didn't even realise that you were so far down. There is no good way for those left behind, there may be ways that are easier for those doing the deed but do not think for a minute that because someone killed themselves in a way that didn't leave blood and brains splattered all over the family home, it will have any less impact on those left. It won't. It will be devastating for them and they will ask themselves every day What did I miss, what could they have done differently. Suicide is a terrible thing, but what is being missed here imho is that it is actually worse for those left behind. Trust me how is not the first question you ask yourself when you find out that a loved one has committed suicide. There are two question. Why? and What did I do wrong?

A PM from a board member simply does not cut it on something this important. There is nothing in the email that I received that even hints at further changes, just a sales pitch trying to sell the less popular items in the Draft. Sorry my vote will be against it in its current form. To many changes for reasons that to my mind have not been justified. This has been a work in progress for 12 months now, if it takes another 12 months that is fine but I won't support something with so many holes in it. And to be honest with less than 7 weeks to go this thing should be finished not still looking to change. I have a question for the people working on this. When are we going to see the constitution that we will be asked to vote on and will it be soon enough for us to consider it fully or with it be thrown on us at the last minute with a here you go folks we have plugged the holes type of statement?

We all mourn in our own way. Far be it for us to Judge how others remember their loved ones. just because it is not the way we may do it, does not make it wrong.

I thought exactly the same thing about the Class structure in England when I was posted there in the mid 80's

The instrument has almost certainly been effective in reducing incidents. I know of 3 Jabiru powered aircraft that were used for training prior to the instrument, that ceased being used on the day the instrument came into force. Thats 3 out of the 3 that I knew of at the time. That since that period would be a reduction of approx 1500 hours flying time. So it goes without saying that would reduce the number of incidents. One other thing to come out of this would be the improved sales of Foxbats, Tecnams and the likes. As with most things, there are winners along with the losers.

Is that an underhanded attempt to push the current attempt at constitutional change. If it is then I call cheap shot.

Marty you shoot yourself in the foot by guessing a number. You would have done better to leave the number open.

Without knowing the real figures everything is just a guess. Sadly people do try to run businesses like that.

There is far more to running a business than taking bookings and being busy. If the profit margins are not there then it won't work. I have worked with people who would not have a clue even what there operating costs are let alone what their profit margins could be. Needless to say most of those guys are no longer in business, the rest won't be for long.

There is Consultation and then there is the pretense of consultation. The former is good, the secondary not so much.

I se that OME has started a thread on Suicide. Maybe we could move the discussion there. Possibly the mods could move the relevant post from this thread to that one.

I personally believe that the first step in treating the Black Dog is to get rid of this stupid media taboo on reporting suicide. My 34 year old daughter is today going to the funeral of the 7th person from her year 12 class to commit suicide. My son a Returned Serviceman has lost a very large group from his platoon in Afganistan, all to suicide. I personally lost my Grandfather and both my Parents to suicide. We need to get suicide into the public arena. If we do not we will never stop it. We need to stop sugar coating it. Calling it the black dog is ok but once the dog takes that final step, it needs to be called what it is and it needs to be talked about and reported. Yes it might be hard for those close the the person/persons involved it there is nothing much harder than getting a call saying both your parents are dead. This is the reason I do the hay runs. If I can stop one farmer, farmers wife or farmers child from living through that then I can rest a little easier. A subject very close to home and about which I feel very strongly. And as I say if we do not report it we will not get the general public talking about it. As OME said this is not a solo flight. Lets get it in an A380 and get the world talking about it. In my personal experience it has been the bigest killer of people that I have known bar none and one more will be another one to many. Edited to add, In light of my comments I would like to see the title of this thread to be changed to include the word Suicide, if OME were to agree of course.

Yet they are still looking for MH370 Go figure.

I refer you back to my one post on this thread. Post #25

The above cases both sound like classic cases of schools chasing dollars rather than schools providing training. I would have ditched the school the minute that they shifted the goal posts the first time. This seems to be a very common problem at least in the Brisbane region. From the several people I have spoken to who have done the conversion they almost all to a person have felt that they were being milked for dollars and had the feeling of being treated as a second class citizen. They area is crying out for a quality school who is looking to provide a good service for a fair price.

Looks like someone did a good job putting it down there. Photo courtesy of rescue 510 Cairns.

I agree with this sentiment, it is always good to see enough people with the interest to put their hands up and give people a choice. Elections in a club show a sense of commitment and strength imho.

I agree Bats but to be honest if you turn in to close you still have options, if you turn in to far out the options are about gone. The misjudging wind direction is understandable but an important lesson for the rest of us. The one thing we have in our favour during an emergency is our slow landing speed. That advantage can be totally lost with a half decent tailwind. So yes a lot that we can all learn from the video. At the end of the day, he walked away and the machine can be fixed. When the engine stops on me I would be happy with just the first one.