From what i can understand you guys are saying that full flap take-offs are a no no,cause we do them by choice as "maximum effort" take offs. Designed to get you off a rough strip very quickly,Full flap, trimmed a fair way forward, leave the ground and hold the stick forward until you build up speed and climb away. I dont think there is any advantage in trying to climb over an obstacle because of the fact that you have to hold her near the ground for longer {all differing with power,wieght,drag issues}but gets your feet out of the XXXXXles much quicker.