A Sad Day

What sadness to read what both John Gardon and Paul Middleton wrote in the July edition of the RAA magazine. They both need a medal for what they must put up with. Somewhere, sometime, the aviation community will need to work cohesively or suffer the consequences. We can't afford to have "snipers" prepared to sabotage one part, hoping it will benefit another. Eventually, if the current situation continues, the RA-Aus may have to say, "No more, enough is enough." A sad day that will be if it comes to pass.

Galpin

Gavin - As it usually takes a week or two for me to get my copy of the mag, can you enlighten me on what is happening?

John Gardon wrote in his article, False Dawn? and Paul's article (which is more specific), that one section of the aviation community has "done-the-dirty," so to speak, with regard to what I call a gentleman's agreement at Temora. RA-Aus has been prepared to help other smaller organizations at RA-Aus's expense, only to be basically told later that RA-Aus is not wanted and that some other aviation organization can do it for them.

I am being as "kind" as possible here, as this is in the public domain. When you read the articles by John and Paul, you will feel the hurt that comes through what they have written.

How long can this continue, where some "bite the hand that feeds" them?

Ian PM me if you want more.

My experience with nasty individuals or organisations is to ignore their behaviour.

Do not give them the satisfaction of seeing that you are upset with their words or actions.

Do not give them any ammunition to fire back at you.

You watch! They will eventualy self-devour, and youmay evenhave the quiet satisfaction of seeing them disappearthrough the appropriate orifice in the proverbial puff of smoke.

Bruce

Can someone please elaborate; this is too cryptic? Are you referring to the fact that RA-Aus executive's told SAAA president Mr. Spicer that he wasn't welcome to land at Narromine over Easter?

Yes Bruce, "nasty individuals/organizations." But as Edmund Burke once said: All that is necessary for evil to succeed is that good men do nothing.

By all means watch what is happening, but let us not be inactive, passive or mindless, burying our collective heads in who knows what!!

I would prefer not to see immolation, rather level-headed members of RA-Aus, GA and Warbirds etc., holding those to account who need it, supporting those who seek the welbeing of aviation and assisting where we can with the abilities we have.

Perhaps a new survey is called for which seeks to find those prepared to assist the wellbeing of aviation in our areas of expertise.

May the only very limited "puff of smoke" we see be from our aircraft engines as they fire-up. No pun intended with that last comment.

Hi Bruce

If only this particular situation was as simple as that! I agree with your tactics and history in the fullness of time will prove you to be correct. But if "they self devour" we also willdisappear in your proverbial puff of smoke. Because even though some may not recognise the fact, we are ALL in this together. A very good reason to pull together. In fact some of the issues already haveahistorywhich promotes concern.

The problem is all of us involved in recreational aviation are a part of this issue and we must suport the group which can best manage our interests. The fragmentation amongsome of thegroups must cease. All the organisations involvedhave expertise which is invaluable for the growth of recreational aviation in Australia.

Consider this fact...Recreational Aviation is any aviation activity in any aircraft from any sector that is not part of a commercial activity. ( Recreational Training GA or RA-Aus is included )

Surely the time has never been more appropriate than now forall the aviation body's in the countryto work together to form a strong alliance forour future growth.The leaders of these groups must bury their ego'sof the past and be brave and humble enough to admit that they could do it better and be strongerif they were part of the sameTeam.

They are the decision makers and we must encourage them to make thecorrect decisions for us.My message to allis, Do Not lose the focus on our recreational aviation future and we must work hard to encourage our leaders, because all of them have good intentions in their own minds.

Each one of them are intelligent people withthe knowledge that they are the ones that will be in the History books and as individuals they wouldprefer History to bekind to them.

Best Regards

Ed Ed Herring

Hi Nosmo

I had a couple of long conversations with Gary Spicer at Natfly and i am sure he would have mentioned this to meat the timeif what you have mentioned was the case. Gary in fact had a good time and enjoyed his time there just as he has done in the past.Isn't Gary one of theteam wanting to work as a team? I have since communicated with Gary and have another version of what you have stated. From that it is easy to understand why youwrote what you did. An unfortunate situation indeed!

Regards

Ed Ed Herring

Its a sad day indeed when folks lose the plot and decide to play politics and mind games when such a huge industry is at stake.

I read the Presidents report as well as the article, and to say I am stunned is an understatement. These good men are doing their very best for each and every person in this great nation to enjoy flying, and to do it safely.

It would be 'nice' if factional elements would open their eyes, see the big picture, step out of the squareand realise just what their actions and quests for power and possible self gain & ego gratification are doing, and make ammends

But then again... pigs might fly.

Ben

To simply use the word sad is an understatement I sometimes wonder what motivates such people, although I guess I know, it’s their own self-perceived view of their own self-impotents, delusions of grandeur is their trade mark, to them there is no big picture only their picture and their view is distorted by their own egos.

I wonder if rather than just expressing our outrage we send letters or e-mails even phone calls of support these men in the RAAust who are working for our future enjoyment I myself will be expressing my support and thanks for what they have already done and have had to endure on our behalf.

DON

Whether they like it or not (the executive division) have opened up a can of worms in attempting to break into the bottom end of the GA market. GA and it's politics have been around a lot longer than the RA-Aus- they are experienced operators at dirty tricks and politics. Next thing you know they'll be on the board and the RA-Aus as we know it may rapidly change. For that reason I believe 750kg's is a very bad idea.

What a sad scene this is. It is not new, it has been going on in one form or another since before the AUF and extending back into the MAFA days. And yes it has always been driven by ego and self importance. i have seen a continuous stream of these people who have no other interests other than there own. when the AUF came into being they came out of the woodwork in droves. the sad thing about the it was that a lot of good people who had devoted a lot of time and effort were driven out by loud rude overbearing people who used every tatic they had in the dirty deeds box. It was so bad that even the dept walked out of a meeting. As for the lower GA types coming under the RAA banner. well i have seen so many GA operators fight continually over a shrinking market. i have seen the results first hand of aircraft damaged by competitors, the slander and backstabbing. i have even seen people lose there business that they have spent most of their lives building up. This does not just stop at operators but extends into the maintainence areas as well. i saw this on all the 4 airports i worked on and have been bitten by them as well. It even extends down to club level. Now, how i see it for the future is that all these GA types will be looking to fill the void when all those lighter GA aircraft come under the RAA banner "they" will of course look for ways to control their future income any way they can, and they don't care about you.

the thing that worries me is how will i be affected by the outcome of this. We already lost our original 95:10 to people like this and it has destroyed an entire industry.

for those who think that the extra weight increase is a good thing, should really think hard at not only what it will do for our "sport" but who will it allow to run for positions to control our future. The last thing we need is formore good people to walk away in disgust. time to close ranks. Ozzie

I am surprised at thecriticism of LFA, the SAAA &their keyExecutives in this months RAA magazine, let alone the vehemance of what the Pres & others have said.

They must really have a burr under their saddle on this ... and I hope that it isn't a personal thingy.

Surely such"dirty linen" would have been better washed less publicly, although I guess that the Exec might think that the members have a right to know.

I would have thought that such a public bunfight and slanging match does nobody any good, splits the meagre resources of experimental aviation andI shudder to think what the Poli's must think .... let alone the forces of darkness who want to sink our form of aviation.

Regards Geoff

So somebody lied - build a bridge and get over it.

Not exactly on point, but I for one hope to see RAA grow to include everything with wings (and rotors for that matter).

I deal with CASA and RAA. RAA anyday!

I do not want to see CASA's administration of GA taken over by a giant AOPA/Aeroclub committee.

I've got to agree with blueline.

Forget about the political infighting, RAAus is where the growth is because it's affordable and it's fun.

Let's all keep helping to make it the success that it is. Others will either seek to join us or they will wither in our wake.

David

Nosmo

In reply to your concerns re RA-Aus getting into the "lower" end of GA...Why does the EAA work so well? Answer...because they are one very strong and powerfull organisation that encompasses all the groups working together...!

Regards

Ed Ed Herring

Hi Ed

Good point.

But one major difference is the USA definition of an ultralight. Virtually all of our RAA aircraft (excluding certified) would wind up under EAA as an experimental aircraft.

Our RAA is unique lets keep it that way. Maybe that's what gets under some other organisations skin.

I was a SAAA member once when you had to build under 101.28 but that's another story. Lets say, the RAA system (for building), if not perfect, actually works a fair bit better. Maybe that irratates the hell out of them.

My shed is now set up for building, construction to begin shortly (need some cash, bit short after moving). This was not possible under 101.28 you couldn't really do much, certainly not your own design. Maybe some wish to go back to those days, I, don't.

Just some thoughts, Micgrace

Hi Geoff ( and All )

( I am surprised at thecriticism of LFA, the SAAA &their keyExecutives in this months RAA magazine, let alone the vehemance of what the Pres & others have said. )

With great respect Geoff, the heading of your post has prompted me to respond. Below is a small part of an email i sent to several from both sides last week beforeRA-Aus Magazine came out.

( The Leisure Flight Australia flyer that came with my AOPA Magazine prompted this email, with the reference that the RA-Aus could not work with the best interests of Private GA, and the LFA Website comment (Ultralights should continue to be administered by Recreational Aviation Australia without interference from GA, and GA should be administered by GA organisations without interference from Recreational Aviation Australia. ) highlights to me, rightly or wrongly just how fundamentally ridiculous it is to waste the opportunity of working together for the same cause. I am of the opinion that all Aircraft and Pilots once airborne deserve equal respect.)

I have now recieved my RA-Aus Magazine and read John and Paul's articles. They are disturbing but having been around the scene for several years, Pauls version of the facts is in paralell with how i have viewed it.

It is a fact that RA-Aus ( formally the AUF ) has been managed very successfully to where it is today, while other organisations have floundered for survival. While no organisation is allways perfect, the RA-Aus strong category and membership should prove to all that it is in an enviable position to manage our recreational aviation future.

Surely the time isNOW forall parties to recognize that recreational aviation is all of us that fly for our recreation in what ever aircraft we fly. We MUST encourageall aviation sectors with theirexperience and expertiseto join together to have one very strong voice to form an organisation thatwill promote the growth of aviation in our best interests.

It is NOT too late to repair the damage. But our leaders must do just that...LEAD. It is them that will be recorded in History for the success or failure of their decisions.

As individuals we can sit back, do nothingand blame every one else when we are not happy with the results or we can do something and at least know we tried. Consider your own position. Show your suport in the way you think best.

Best Regards

Ed

Ed Herring

Thank you Ed that was great.

There is strength in unity however division only brings greater division leaving all flyers in a weaker position to negotiate for change when needed and that benefits no one.

Don

danda

The charter members of Leisure Flight Australia are: <t><t></t></t><t></t><t></t><t></t><table style="width: 423px; height: 199px;" align="center" cellpadding="1" cellspacing="1"><t><tr>

<td>Australian Warbirds Association Ltd</td>

<td>Group Association</td></tr>

<tr>

<td>Royal Federation of Aero Clubs Australia</td>

<td>Group Association</td></tr>

<tr>

<td>Sport Aircraft Association of Australia Inc</td>

<td>Group Association</td></tr>

<tr>

<td>Peter Bennett, National Vice President SAAA</td>

<td>Individual</td></tr>

<tr>

<td>Marj Davis, President, RFACA</td>

<td>Individual</td></tr>

<tr>

<td>Trevor Merton, President, AWAL</td>

<td>Individual</td></tr>

<tr>

<td>Gary Spicer, National President, SAAA</td>

<td>Individual</td></tr></t></table>

I suggest that those interested in the future of RAA/AUF have a little look at:

http://www.leisureflight.com.au

LFA doesn't want RAA/AUF on board their bandwagon, let aloneto beinvolved in any way with the RAA/AUF which might suggest that they need us. Let's face it, in the big scheme of aviation,unless we have delusions of grandeur, we are mixed with the gravel in the bottom of the bird cage.

Let's salvage our pride, consolidate and defend what we have, and get on with life.

I wish LFA well in its struggle ahead without our help.

Bruce

(Link has been fixed - changed the ie to ei - Ian)

<hr>

Well said, Bruce.

The good thing about being mixed in with the gravel is that no one takes much notice of us and we are more or less free to do our own thing.

On the other hand, everyone wants to own/control/muck around with the pretty bird in the gilded cage.

regards

Hi Bruce

I am curious to find out what the SAAA membership thinks of their leaders promoting another organisation. Why didn't their leadersput the SAAA forward with all the members experience and expertise instead of LFA? What do you and the SAAA membership think?

Regards

Ed Ed Herring

I had a quick look at their website.

Nicely put together, with nice graphics and stuff...

There is one quote that jumped out at me;

We are not amused by the increasing costs and restrictions being placed upon the PPL, the prime qualification for those of us who fly GA for fun. A recent report by the Bureau of Transport Economics makes it clear that, on present trends, it is only a matter of time before recreational GA flatlines.

In this paragraph, the operative sense is towards those with a PPL using GA for recreation.. pilots who fly for fun. (I highlighted the text).

Somehow, I keep thinking of the main objective of the RAA - to maintain affordable flying, while maintaining high training and safety standards.

At my home clubat Shepparton, the one big thing I have noted is that pilots are that - pilots. There is no discrimination between RA and GA, because everyone knows that people are there because they love flying. This sentiment is alsoreinforced with the flying school.

Sad that folks simply cannot see that there is already an organisation working towards the common desire. If they could get over their petty egos and castle building, and work WITH the exec of our organisation, then the future of recreational aviation in this country will be assured.

But then, I am reminded of the early days of railways in this country, where no two states had the same standard... and that given human nature, pigs might fly.

Ben

(Occupational cynic)

Ed Herring

Hi Ed

Politics and huge EGOS I suspect! OOPS! there I go, venting my spleen again.

Bruce

Hello Galpin

If you can't get into the LFA website with the link I provided, try a google search for 'leisure flight australia' and get in that way. Sometimes I don't understand the intricacies of the internet.

Bruce

(footnote: Bruce, I fixed the link in your previous post prob with i before e or something like that - Ian)