Can a 100+ton Airliner disappear into a steel columned concret tower building?

[Old Koreelah]

Deflection is the only thing he knows how to do as a malignant narcissist the only thing that matters is himsef...

To hell with the working poor, many of whom elected him. He makes sure his wealthy mates get rich, so they can fund his next election campaign.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/may/03/trump-coronavirus-wealthy-friends-donors-backers

[facthunter]

It's ALL about the next election for TRUMP so truth is absent even more than usual. He's like a helicopter. Won't crash gracefully, and he will rise like Terminator from the bits. to the adulation of his followers in the streets with assault weapons, claiming everything is FAKE that's said against him.. Nev

[rgmwa]

Wingtips would most certainly leave an imprint on any building at the speeds the Boeings were travelling at. The bloke proposing the conspiracy fantasy may have plenty of flying knowledge, but he has no building or construction knowledge.

The outsides of even the biggest skyscrapers are huge openings, full of windows. An aircraft travelling at 450mph would not just splatter on the outside, the sheer velocity of the plane will carry it many metres into the building through those window openings and well beyond.

 

Not to mention a large quantity of fuel added to the mix.

[facthunter]

I doubt the planes were travelling at such speeds as 450 knots at low levels. Wingtips are not very strong. They don't have to be. One plane had to bank steeply to line up and ended up to the right anyhow. Could have almost missed it.. I've done a few runs through airport terminals in full motion sims. long before this happened. It's not that easy to get it right, eyeballing from miles out. Nev

[Flightrite]

I'll go against the general feeling on here no doubt gunna get shot down for it, Trump has done some good for the country. Sure he's odd he's not a politician but a businessman, remember pretty boy Obama said all the rights things, looked good on TV especially for the corrupt CNN yet his party was squashed, funny about that! The USA people had a choice they where sick of the country going down the toilet, go with Trump or war mongering Hillary who stood beside her husband the commander & chief at the time (got away with the impeachment, cunning move) and lied to the nation!

That aside the people get to vote again soon and watch the next election, Trump is a sure thing I reckon!?

[rgmwa]

Hard to see what good he's done. All he's achieved is revealing how divided the country really is and making it even worse. For a failed businessman, he's not a bad politician, but only when it comes to looking after his own interests. For the country and the world in general he's a disaster. The sooner he's gone the better.

[jackc]

Hard to see what good he's done. All he's achieved is revealing how divided the country really is and making it even worse. For a failed businessman, he's not a bad politician, but only when it comes to looking after his own interests. For the country and the world in general he's a disaster. The sooner he's gone the better.

 

And the other choices are?

[rgmwa]

And the other choices are?

Just about anyone picked at random off the street could do a better job. And it wouldn't be a bad idea to move Mitch McConnell on while they're at it. The Senate might actually be able to get something done.

[kgwilson]

Trump has about a 35 word vocabulary unless he is reading a script & even then misses important words like "not". The other day he got a lot of words wrong like vegable for vegetable. He didn't win the last election by popular vote. Hilary got 3 million more votes than he did. It is the flawed electoral college system they have that got him into the Whitehouse. In 1170 days he has made 18,000 false or misleading claims, that's 15 a day. He is a racist and misogynist and as said before a malignant narcissist. The clinical definition fits Trump to a Tee.

 

There is not a lot to be said about any politician but there is none I can think of that come close to being an absolute idiot as Trump who often acts like a petulant child. He is despised by many Republicans but they are in power so grit their teeth and carry on. He is a bit like Stalin in that he gets rid of anyone who does not agree with him or he thinks they are conspiring against him except they are not shot. He has achieved very little during his term. It was the policies put in place by the Obama administration that set the course for the US economy boom. The rust belt in the mid west where he has a lot of support is still the same with the promised return of industries not materialising. His main achievement is to isolate the USA from the world which will only serve to accelerate the slide of US influence. Even Kim Jong-un played him like a fiddle.

[facthunter]

He is the best argument for not being able to vote for a Leader known Hilary got a couple of million more votes than Donny did. He behaves like a spoiled BRAT virtually illiterate, sacks everyone who disagrees with him. Breaks agreements unilaterally. Only likes dealing with dictators. The whole world has no idea what he will do next and neither does HE.

The fact He is CinC of the US armed forces should scare the pants off every thinking person. Rules don't apply to Don. He plays his supporter base to perfection He has made such a mess of the virus thing I doubt he can get the support he needs in the time left. As he panics more he will be more of a raving maniac than he already is. He heeds the advice of no one. His ego is all there is.. America is hurting. It's got massive problems even a good government would have to handle with care .Nev

[Jabiru7252]

By chance I happened to tune into the late night news in Australia on 11th September 2001. I watched the broadcast from New York of the aftermath of the first hit which happened at 8:46 am New York time. I was still watching the broadcast of the aftermath of the first impact when I saw the second impact at 9:03 am Local.

 

If you watch the video, take your eyes off the aircraft and building. Look into the background to see any anomalies. Remember the photo Yenn posted of the P51 over the Stuart? It took us about 5 seconds to determine that it was Photoshopped. Never look at the intended centre piece of a photo to see it it's fact or false.

Please please please tell me you do not doubt that planes crashed into the twin towers.

[old man emu]

please tell me you do not doubt that planes crashed into the twin towers

 

I'm absolutely, unequivocally certain that I saw, via live action broadcast, the second plane hit the Tower. I am certain that what I saw broadcast was not a visual special effect. I was watching that about midnight Eastern Daylight Saving Time, and the incident happened around 9:00 am New York time. My wife and I had just come back to our motel room after spending the evening with my mother, grieving over the passing of my father.

 

What I said about picking an altered photograph is advice on one way to pick an altered photograph. People who alter photographs use the magician's device of distraction. The focus your attention on what they want you to see, but don't alter background stuff. Yenn did it with that photo he posted of the P51 allegedly buzzing a 4WD and trailer. Do you remember the picture that has a voluptuous woman in the foreground, but in the background it appears that a dog is driving a car down the street?

 

If you doubt the authenticity of a picture, look for anomalies in the background.

[Methusala]

He seems to think the plane would spear through the building and come out virtually intact on the other side.

G'day RGMA, What I see from your helpful video is that, as the F-4 impacts the stationary object at high velocity, it creates a debris field of large radius. From the clips allegedly depicting a much larger plane impacting the steel-faced skyscraper, no debris field AT ALL! How can this be. We have all, in our youth, thrown rocks into water and loved watching the splash that results therefrom. Yet a high speed collision of a fast moving airliner leaves no disturbance. Of course the debris is moving away from the target at some speed in the opposite direction from the impact. This image doesn't make sense in a physical world. Don

[facthunter]

Any images I saw did have debris falling as well as the two engines which were still going fast. How can anything be shopped when you are seeing it "AS IT HAPPENED", in real time/ Later stuff has all the time in the world to be interfered with. The majority of the surface is glass which will go with the plane as it yields easily as that's where the "kinetic" forces are coming from. There's nothing to make the fragments go back where the plane came from. Nev

[rgmwa]

G'day RGMA, What I see from your helpful video is that, as the F-4 impacts the stationary object at high velocity, it creates a debris field of large radius. From the clips allegedly depicting a much larger plane impacting the steel-faced skyscraper, no debris field AT ALL! How can this be. We have all, in our youth, thrown rocks into water and loved watching the splash that results therefrom. Yet a high speed collision of a fast moving airliner leaves no disturbance. Of course the debris is moving away from the target at some speed in the opposite direction from the impact. This image doesn't make sense in a physical world. Don

 

The external surface of a building is not a concrete block but the concrete core is, and the planes did penetrate the building. Also the F-4 did not appear to be loaded with fuel. What brought the towers down was not the initial impact and the planes disintegrating, but the subsequent fuel fire/explosion and heat that destroyed the lightweight steel trusses supporting the floors immediately above and below the impact zone. The trusses connected the concrete core to the external steel box columns, and also provided critical lateral support to the columns. When that support was lost, the heat affected columns buckled and failed, allowing the undamaged floors above to act as a pile driver to demolish the structure. If you want to bring down a tall structure you demolish the lower columns and walls that hold it up. That's what they do in controlled demolition, and that's more or less what happened here, no doubt leading to some of the conspiracy theories.

[facthunter]

Yes, steel softens at relatively low temps. Hitting a fair way down provided the extra mass to make the pile driver effect sufficient once it started. From the terrorists point of view a very successful mission for a miniscule expenditure. They even trained in the US. but didn't need to do landing instruction. They knew what they were doing. Nev

[octave]

To suggest that this event somehow didn't happen as reported because the damage does not seem to tally with what we imagine it should be is a bit nutty in my opinion. You cant just say it doesn't look right and then ignore all the other evidence. We know there were tens of thousands of people on the street witnessed and filmed this event as well as people looking out of there apartment windows.

 

The idea of doctored footage must take into consideration that the second impact was broadcast live from news helicopters. These days anyone can mess around with photoshop (although live footage would be a challenge). Twenty years ago this technology was no where near as powerful as today.

 

In post #12 one of our forum members reports seeing the second impact. Either he is trying to mislead us or perhaps he is on the payroll or maybe perhaps he and many thousands of other people did see this happen live.

 

Below is a collection of clips from multiple observers and from multiple angles as well from news helicopters.

 

 

 

Edited May 24, 2020 by octave

[Flightrite]

I ref to my post #6, hard to imagine some out there truly are how shall I say mentally challenged! I can't for the life of me understand how the EMS people coped with that carnage!

[Methusala]

I ref to my post #6, hard to imagine some out there truly are how shall I say mentally challenged!

I have never thought that this event didn't take place nor do I imagine that many thousands of innocent people did not die on 9/11. I need to be satisfied that the official story as reported by the inquiry stacks up to the evidence. Many sane people (not MENTALLY CHALLENGED) have a great deal of trouble believing the Warren Commission's conclusions about JFK's assassination.

To be sure, it is truly a terrible idea, that such a diabolical fraud could be perpetrated on the World. I am only partially able to think of this. But I did hear the taped voice of Silverstien (the owner of the WTC complex) say about building 7,"We decided to pull it"! shortly before it collapsed. I don't see much evidence of myself being, "mentally challenged", but I do think that the current state of the world leaves me skeptical, even jaundiced at the current state of officialdom. Who could keep a straight face imagining Trump would ever be POTUS or that Biden could be entertained as the putative replacement. Just sayi'n! Don

[octave]

The problem with conspiracy "theories" are that they tend to find small anomalies and build a story around them without feeling the need to address the inconsistencies created. I am not a materials specialist, engineer or a physicist but when I run this idea through my BS filter I cant get past the sheer number of eyewitnesses who believe they saw the aircraft collide with the buildings. I also find it difficult to contemplate the number of people who would need to have been coordinated in order to make this happen.

 

People are happy to suspicious of an aeroplane shaped hole caused by an aeroplane because they don't think that could not happen but they are happy to entertain the notion that there was some kind of controlled demolition that made that hole and brought down those buildings. This introduces many more questions doesn't it?

 

My question to those who do not believe aircraft struck these buildings then what is their explanation for the eyewitness accounts? What alternative scenarios do they offer?

[Methusala]

I remain agnostic to any theory yet advanced as to the "real truth" behind the tragic events of 9/11. I address any post I've made to the collective readership on this site in an attempt to simply find the truth. So far, I find that the official version of these events is stacked with many logical inconsistencies (if not outright lies) and, given the shocking aftermath of the "War on Terror", I'd like to see a more realistic, believable explanation. So far, not at all convinced. Can anyone explain how a giant airliner striking the Pentagon can leave a "20ft hole" and no debris on the lawn? Don

[Methusala]

[turboplanner]

I remain agnostic to any theory yet advanced as to the "real truth" behind the tragic events of 9/11. I address any post I've made to the collective readership on this site in an attempt to simply find the truth. So far, I find that the official version of these events is stacked with many logical inconsistencies (if not outright lies) and, given the shocking aftermath of the "War on Terror", I'd like to see a more realistic, believable explanation. So far, not at all convinced. Can anyone explain how a giant airliner striking the Pentagon can leave a "20ft hole" and no debris on the lawn? Don

Go to the Hiroshima museum and you’ll see wood slivers that pierced steel plate. Remember the Boeing 747 rear dimes that collapsed after maintainers left out a few bolts. A big aircraft is a blob of jelly that will deform under pressure converted to heat. I posted about the documentary on the Pentagon. You should have a look; very straightforward facts.

[M61A1]

[ATTACH]53476[/ATTACH]

where is this image supposed to be? It doesn’t look like any of the other images of the Pentagon

[octave]

where is this image supposed to be? It doesn’t look like any of the other images of the Pentagon

Pretty sure that is one of the inner walls.